How to return wort to mash tun recirc?

[RPh_Guy]

I mash in a 10 gal cooler and I'm purchasing a RIMS package from brewhardware.
I'm using a floating stainless pizza pan as the mash cap. There's only about 3/4" clearance between the mash cap and the wall of the cooler.

I'm wondering what's the best way to set up the wort return to avoid aeration and also avoid wrecking the grain bed?
It needs to drop about 5-8" into the mash tun for my regular size batches.

Some kind of Loc-Line with an elbow to direct the incoming wort sideways?
A couple elbows top so it can just rest on the rim of the cooler/tun?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

When I dabbled in LoDo I riveted a small stainless steel bowl (with several small holes drilled in it) to the underside of my mash cap, and a barb fitting through the mash cap into the bowl. That way recirculated wort went in below the liquid level but didn't damage the grain bed. I don't know if any others do it that way though - that was my homemade solution!

 

[RPh_Guy]

That sounds like a good option, thanks.

I don't currently have the tools for the stainless steel drilling or rivets, but I'll keep that in mind.

 

[Schlenkerla]

I mash in a 10 gal cooler and I'm purchasing a RIMS package from brewhardware.
I'm using a floating stainless pizza pan as the mash cap. There's only about 3/4" clearance between the mash cap and the wall of the cooler.

I'm wondering what's the best way to set up the wort return to avoid aeration and also avoid wrecking the grain bed?
It needs to drop about 5-8" into the mash tun for my regular size batches.

Some kind of Loc-Line with an elbow to direct the incoming wort sideways?
A couple elbows top so it can just rest on the rim of the cooler/tun?

@Bilsch has some pretty good ideas. Let's see if he chimes in here. I think he uses different length pipe nipples off a street elbow that's connected to the temperature port. It comes in low and is raised as needed.

I'll see if I can find the thread where he posted pictures of his set-up.

 

[Schlenkerla]

FYI

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/index.php?threads/667424/

 

[RPh_Guy]

Had an idea. All I need is a whirlpool return! Just need to point it toward the middle of the mash tun.

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/spincycleoverboard.htm

 

[CTS]

When I dabbled in LoDo I riveted a small stainless steel bowl (with several small holes drilled in it) to the underside of my mash cap, and a barb fitting through the mash cap into the bowl. That way recirculated wort went in below the liquid level but didn't damage the grain bed. I don't know if any others do it that way though - that was my homemade solution!

This is a great idea. Have been scratching my head for a long time now trying to figure this out. How did this effect your efficiency if at all?

 

[Smellyglove]

It's a pretty shitty drawing in paint, but you could also do like this, it's a very small thing. close nipple through the mash cap, secure it with lock nuts, add an elbow to the top, then add a threaded hose barb to the elbow, add a hose to the side wall where you also make a hole, or in the lid and add fitting to that hole.

At the mash-side, you add an end cap, and cut out some slits in it so the wort sprays horizontally under the wort.

 

[RPh_Guy]

You guys are more comfortable than me at drilling holes in stuff.

I bought the return arm I linked above. I'll let you know how well it works.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I use a SS Brewtech recirculation manifold attached to the bottom of my stainless pizza pan mash cap. The hole is in the middle with a barb sticking through.

Here it is pictured with an early simple version of a recirculation setup.

 

[RPh_Guy]

That's very cool.

How useful is a sightglass?

 

[Cavpilot2000]

That's very cool.

How useful is a sightglass?

Super useful for my purposes.
I use it to tell when the wort is recirculating clear (then I divert it to the BK). My current setup uses 3-way ball valves to divert it, which the pictured setup doesn't do).
I try to send clear wort to both my BK and then to my fermenter, for which the glass is crucial.

 

[mongoose33]

This is what I'm doing. By luck or happenstance, when I add the grain the water level rises slightly above the locline return, so the mash cap just floats on top of the water. I can see small eddies in the water as the liquid comes out of the locline segments, but that doesn't matter with the mash cap. So, no splashing.

Pizza pan, eh? I'm going to have to see if there's a size that works better than the 5-gallon kettle lid I've been using for a mash cap....

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Pizza pan, eh? I'm going to have to see if there's a size that works better than the 5-gallon kettle lid I've been using for a mash cap....

Here is what I use. It is about 13" in diameter, but is deep dish, so the side walls are over an inch high. It isn't cheap, but I love it.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NI2ZC4...olid=25BZVJNY3MMBH&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

 

[Gnomebrewer]

You guys are more comfortable than me at drilling holes in stuff.

Thin stainless (up to the thickness used in kegs) isn't too hard to drill through - use a slow speed and cutting lube. For thicker stuff, take it to an engineering place.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

How did this effect your efficiency if at all?

I still use the same return system on my RIMS setup now - mash efficiency is around 85-90%.
When I did LoDo, I was using a full-volume mash/no sparge and wasn't stirring (that's what was recommended at the time - back in the early LoDo days) so efficiency was quite poor. Maybe about 60%, but going from memory. I'm planning a couple of LoDo brews on my current system later this year - am expecting about a 10% drop compared to my typical process.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I still use the same return system on my RIMS setup now - mash efficiency is around 85-90%.
When I did LoDo, I was using a full-volume mash/no sparge and wasn't stirring (that's what was recommended at the time - back in the early LoDo days) so efficiency was quite poor. Maybe about 60%, but going from memory. I'm planning a couple of LoDo brews on my current system later this year - am expecting about a 10% drop compared to my typical process.

FYI (this may help) - LODO (LOB) current practice does recommend at least a little stirring on dough-in (just be gentle). Recirculation is key too. THat's gotten my LOB efficiency back up to 70-75% from the initial drop when I started it. Check out the revised guidance on the site. Things like starting with 40 PPM of sulfites and dialing down from there, rather than 100 or more.

 

[mongoose33]

That's very cool.

How useful is a sightglass?

Same as @Cavpilot2000 . You can see exactly what you have and when there are no longer bits of grain flowing through. Here's a couple examples; the text behind the one is to see how just how clear the wort is:

 

[mongoose33]

You guys are more comfortable than me at drilling holes in stuff.

I bought the return arm I linked above. I'll let you know how well it works.

It's not that bad with a step bit, not bad at all. Drill about a 3/16" hole to start, then go. As noted above, slow and lubricated and you're there.

When I had to add a couple tri-clamp fittings I had a local metalshop drill the holes for me (they were about, oh, between 1.5 and 2" and I didn't have the step bit to do that.

IMO, the absolute best fittings for weldless ports are sold by bobby m at Brewhardware. They are dead rock solid, won't leak like most others do, and I can't tell them apart from the welded ports I have.

FWIW, here's how my return manifold is connected now; I added a male camlock fitting and the locline manifold is connected to a female camlock fitting. Easy to remove for cleaning, both the manifold and the kettle. The best part may be that I also have a 20-gallon mash tun set up with the same male camlock, so I can use the return manifold in either mash tun, 10- or 20-gallon.

The pics look a little wonky due to the angle from which I took the pics; it's square and centered in the kettle.

 

[Amadeo38]

I should have thought to ask others what they would do when I was in this situation, as some of these (especially the locline one) are pretty clean. I know OP already purchased the solution, but for the integrity of future searchers, here is what I made for very cheap.

Pure copper only and silver solder. Drilled small holes evenly spaced throughout. Works pretty well!

 

[day_trippr]

[...]How useful is a sightglass?

fwiw, I find the sight glass on my mlt to be invaluable as it allows me to set the recirculation rate to the max that the grain bed allows without actually risking a stuck mash...

Cheers!

 

[Gnomebrewer]

FYI (this may help) - LODO (LOB) current practice does recommend at lest a little stirring on dough-in (just be gentle). Recirculation is key too. THat's gotten my LOB efficiency back up to 70-75% from the initial drop when I started it. Check out the revised guidance on the site. Things like starting with 40 PPM of sulfites and dialing down from there, rather than 100 or more.

Yep, I'm aware of that thanks. The efficiency drop doesn't bother me anyway - it's only a few dollars in grain. That's not the reason I stopped LoDo.

 

[FatDragon]

I should have thought to ask others what they would do when I was in this situation, as some of these (especially the locline one) are pretty clean. I know OP already purchased the solution, but for the integrity of future searchers, here is what I made for very cheap.

View attachment 638945

Pure copper only and silver solder. Drilled small holes evenly spaced throughout. Works pretty well!

This is the LoDo subforum. You're giving these guys nightmares right now with all that copper and splashing!

 

[Amadeo38]

This is the LoDo subforum. You're giving these guys nightmares right now with all that copper and splashing!

Ah, my apologies - didn’t pay attention to the subforum! FWIW the two most recent beers I brewed on this system both scored 41.5 at competition last weekend. One won gold in a previous comp and one won silver in this comp (a NE style Pale Ale which was bottled from keg with no oxygen purging of the bottle - gasp!)

 

[RPh_Guy]

FWIW the two most recent beers I brewed on this system both scored 41.5 at competition last weekend. One won gold in a previous comp and one won silver in this comp (a NE style Pale Ale which was bottled from keg with no oxygen purging of the bottle - gasp!)

Very nice, congrats

And thanks everyone!

 

[vtipsy]

Here's my mash cap. It comes apart for easy cleaning.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Here's my mash cap. It comes apart for easy cleaning.

View attachment 638997 View attachment 638998

What is that you're using for the mash cap?

 

[vtipsy]

What is that you're using for the mash cap?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004BRH0XI/

It's aluminum not stainless but that's fine. I had to cut the rim off so that it would fit in my MT.

 

[Smellyglove]

I should have thought to ask others what they would do when I was in this situation, as some of these (especially the locline one) are pretty clean. I know OP already purchased the solution, but for the integrity of future searchers, here is what I made for very cheap.

View attachment 638945

Pure copper only and silver solder. Drilled small holes evenly spaced throughout. Works pretty well!

I actually found this post hilarious since it's in the LoDo-forum, and figured that you didn't know which forum you posted to. It's sort of everything the opposite of LoDo.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I actually found this post hilarious since it's in the LoDo-forum, and figured that you didn't know which forum you posted to. It's sort of everything the opposite of LoDo.

True, but credit where it's due - it's a nice DIY rig if you're NOT doing LODO!

 

[Smellyglove]

True, but credit where it's due - it's a nice DIY rig if you're NOT doing LODO!

It absolutely is. It was just funny in the context.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Photos!

I got the 18" model so I can use it to underlet:

It is completely and easily adjustable to return the wort at any height ... Plus I can easily move it over to the kettle when it's time to transfer.

Pretty excited!

 

[Soulshine2]

I mash in a 10 gal cooler and I'm purchasing a RIMS package from brewhardware.
I'm using a floating stainless pizza pan as the mash cap. There's only about 3/4" clearance between the mash cap and the wall of the cooler.

I'm wondering what's the best way to set up the wort return to avoid aeration and also avoid wrecking the grain bed?
It needs to drop about 5-8" into the mash tun for my regular size batches.

Some kind of Loc-Line with an elbow to direct the incoming wort sideways?
A couple elbows top so it can just rest on the rim of the cooler/tun?

i'm curious of what you are doing and why...got an illustration of this ?

 

[RPh_Guy]

i'm curious of what you are doing and why...got an illustration of this ?

As a matter of fact, I do. This was my plan as I was picking out all my new fittings (I'm upgrading to all 1/2" tubing with ball-lock quick connects).

My brew day has 7 flow paths. It'll be single tier with no gravity transfers.

In order:

1. Transfer water from kettle (being used as HLT) to the mash tun.
2. Recirculate the mash through the RIMS.
3. Transfer the wort to the kettle.
4. Recirculate wort through the CFC to chill.
5. Ground water chilling phase.
6. Ice water recirculation chilling phase.
7. Transfer chilled wort from kettle to fermenter.

Hoses are labeled with letters.

As to the "why" ... This is the Low Oxygen Brewing subforum. By eliminating oxygen on both the hot side and cold side we can make beer with amazing flavor.

My RIMS needs to return the wort under the surface so there's no splashing/aeration.

Cheers

 

[eric19312]

As a matter of fact, I do. This was my plan as I was picking out all my new fittings (I'm upgrading to all 1/2" tubing with ball-lock quick connects).

My brew day has 7 flow paths. It'll be single tier with no gravity transfers.

In order:

1. Transfer water from kettle (being used as HLT) to the mash tun.
2. Recirculate the mash through the RIMS.
3. Transfer the wort to the kettle.
4. Recirculate wort through the CFC to chill.
5. Ground water chilling phase.
6. Ice water recirculation chilling phase.
7. Transfer chilled wort from kettle to fermenter.

Hoses are labeled with letters.

View attachment 639366

As to the "why" ... This is the Low Oxygen Brewing subforum. By eliminating oxygen on both the hot side and cold side we can make beer with amazing flavor.

My RIMS needs to return the wort under the surface so there's no splashing/aeration.

Cheers

Looking at your flow chart .... in step 1 if you go kettle -> pump -> mash tun drain you can underlet your grain. I'm not LODO but did adopt this LODO underletting practice and really like how it works. Even mostly pilsner grists which used to give me incredibly tough dough balls wet very nicely with underletting.

 

[Soulshine2]

As a matter of fact, I do. This was my plan as I was picking out all my new fittings (I'm upgrading to all 1/2" tubing with ball-lock quick connects).

My brew day has 7 flow paths. It'll be single tier with no gravity transfers.

In order:

1. Transfer water from kettle (being used as HLT) to the mash tun.
2. Recirculate the mash through the RIMS.
3. Transfer the wort to the kettle.
4. Recirculate wort through the CFC to chill.
5. Ground water chilling phase.
6. Ice water recirculation chilling phase.
7. Transfer chilled wort from kettle to fermenter.

Hoses are labeled with letters.

View attachment 639366

As to the "why" ... This is the Low Oxygen Brewing subforum. By eliminating oxygen on both the hot side and cold side we can make beer with amazing flavor.

My RIMS needs to return the wort under the surface so there's no splashing/aeration.

Cheers

I still dont get the LODO thing. I mean I understand what youre trying to do but it still seems like a lot of counterproductive steps .
I gravity transfer because when I did try a pump I quickly lost temperature and I felt the pump impeller added aeration where i didnt want it. Not to mention one more place or process that could harbor bacteria /mold and therefore , infection.
From what Ive read and understood up til now, the cold side ,as long as you dont promote any unnecessary aeration in your process, the hot side process will eliminate yet before the fermentation process ,one is instructed to aerate the wort prior to pitching. I believe this is where most people misunderstand and they think they must oxygenate with pure oxygen rather than a simple splashing about of the chilled wort.
I know of no brewery that purposely adds pure oxygen .
I do make sure I keep my grains sealed and I crush my grain as soon as I can before adding to the mash tun. I gently transfer making sure to not splash any part of the process until it heads into the fermenter,then it gets a slow crack of the ball valve which draws in air to the wort (air bubbles in the clear tubing shows this) which both helps further the chill and aerates it when it enters in a splashing frothing 2 ft drop.
Don't get me wrong .
If it works for you then by all means continue.

 

[Blazinlow86]

I still dont get the LODO thing. I mean I understand what youre trying to do but it still seems like a lot of counterproductive steps .
I gravity transfer because when I did try a pump I quickly lost temperature and I felt the pump impeller added aeration where i didnt want it. Not to mention one more place or process that could harbor bacteria /mold and therefore , infection.
From what Ive read and understood up til now, the cold side ,as long as you dont promote any unnecessary aeration in your process, the hot side process will eliminate yet before the fermentation process ,one is instructed to aerate the wort prior to pitching. I believe this is where most people misunderstand and they think they must oxygenate with pure oxygen rather than a simple splashing about of the chilled wort.
I know of no brewery that purposely adds pure oxygen .
I do make sure I keep my grains sealed and I crush my grain as soon as I can before adding to the mash tun. I gently transfer making sure to not splash any part of the process until it heads into the fermenter,then it gets a slow crack of the ball valve which draws in air to the wort (air bubbles in the clear tubing shows this) which both helps further the chill and aerates it when it enters in a splashing frothing 2 ft drop.
Don't get me wrong .
If it works for you then by all means continue.

[emoji897]

 

[Schlenkerla]

I still dont get the LODO thing. I mean I understand what youre trying to do but it still seems like a lot of counterproductive steps .
I gravity transfer because when I did try a pump I quickly lost temperature and I felt the pump impeller added aeration where i didnt want it. Not to mention one more place or process that could harbor bacteria /mold and therefore , infection.
From what Ive read and understood up til now, the cold side ,as long as you dont promote any unnecessary aeration in your process, the hot side process will eliminate yet before the fermentation process ,one is instructed to aerate the wort prior to pitching. I believe this is where most people misunderstand and they think they must oxygenate with pure oxygen rather than a simple splashing about of the chilled wort.
I know of no brewery that purposely adds pure oxygen .
I do make sure I keep my grains sealed and I crush my grain as soon as I can before adding to the mash tun. I gently transfer making sure to not splash any part of the process until it heads into the fermenter,then it gets a slow crack of the ball valve which draws in air to the wort (air bubbles in the clear tubing shows this) which both helps further the chill and aerates it when it enters in a splashing frothing 2 ft drop.
Don't get me wrong .
If it works for you then by all means continue.

FTR - This is not the right place to debate LOB Methodology. Specifically in point to it's value in home brewing unless you want to explain a better method of LOB brewing.

 

[brewbama]

[emoji897]

[emoji897][emoji897]

 

[Bilsch]

Once you understand the process and the science, the steps make perfect sense. And there is no doubt it does make different beer.