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R/o water I have bru'n waterWhat kind of water are you starting with? Do you use any brewing software?
R/o water I have bru'n waterWhat kind of water are you starting with? Do you use any brewing software?
DUnkelweizen doesn't have that high a percentage of dark malts typically so personally I would aim for baseline. If it's half dark munich, aim for an amber ale profile--more chloride than sulfate to accentuate the malt.
I will note that years after he did the original post, AJ said he'd halve things as "current" trend was toward less minerally beer.
In the brew your best series, Josh Weikert uses simply wheat and Munich, with only 6oz C120 2oz CarafaII. I've followed his guidelines for great results on several styles, fwiw.
So the numbers suggested in the original post in the thread should be cut in half? Both the calcium and acid malt?
I never went down the brewing water hole far, yet!
Calcium (ppm) | Magnesium (ppm) | Alkalinity as CaCO3 | Sulfate (ppm) | Chloride (ppm) | Sodium (ppm) | Water pH |
26 | 5 | 79 | 40 | 51 | 62 | 7.7 |
Final Calcium (ppm) | Final Magnesium (ppm) | Final Total Alkalinity as CaCO3 | Final Sulfate (ppm) | Final Chloride (ppm) | Final Sodium (ppm) | Final Residual Alkalinity as CaCO3 |
88 | 15 | 79 | 228 | 51 | 62 | 7 |
Final Calcium (ppm) | Final Magnesium (ppm) | Final Total Alkalinity as CaCO3 | Final Sulfate (ppm) | Final Chloride (ppm) | Final Sodium (ppm) | Final Residual Alkalinity as CaCO3 |
88 | 15 | -1 | 228 | 108 | 62 | -73 |
Then a smaller addition of Epsom salts to bring me to the following:
If I include an acid addition to remove at alkalinity I get a very low RA and Beersmith says it only reduces estimated mash pH to 5.53
Final Calcium (ppm) Final Magnesium (ppm) Final Total Alkalinity as CaCO3 Final Sulfate (ppm) Final Chloride (ppm) Final Sodium (ppm) Final Residual Alkalinity as CaCO3 88 15 -1 228 108 62 -73
Any thoughts on what a good approach would be to get a suitable water profile and mash pH?
Any thoughts on what a good approach would be to get a suitable water profile and mash pH?
If I were starting out with 5 ppm magnesium, I wouldn't add any more. In fact, I usually build from distilled water and don't add any magnesium.
If you want a lower pH after getting the minerals where you want them, add more acid.
Might have been better to start a new thread with your question. Why did the Chloride number change in your last profile?
Malt itself brings Mg to the table, @1634_Racine , with specialty grains more, adjuncts much less.
See for instance, this, esp starting page 8.
Mash pH should be in the 5.2 - 5.6 range
pH shift = 0.00168 * RA (as CaCO3) or pH shift = 0.084 * RA (as mEq/L)
So nothing wrong with a negative RA to lower the pH.
Still useful as a back of the envelope kind of calculation IMHO. YMMV
Towards the end he talks about importance of magnesium for yeast and some new theory on why calcium/magnesium ratio is important for yeast health. This might include bringing up magnesium levels up to 50ppm in the mash liquour
Towards the end he talks about importance of magnesium for yeast and some new theory on why calcium/magnesium ratio is important for yeast health. This might include bringing up magnesium levels up to 50ppm in the mash liquour
I just went to morebeer.com to order brewing salts. All I find is gypsum, Oxyclean and filters. What's a better source or am I just not doing the search correctly?
Given your base water profile this would be a good target profile for a Dunkleweizen:I am doing a Dunkelweizen this weekend. I am trying to find the Dunkelweizen water profile for Munich. I can only find for dark lagers. Anyone have a link to where I can find it.
Here is my current water profile. It is a mix of my carbon filtered and RO Water at 25/75 on percentages.
Ca 30.7 Magnesium 14 Sodium 11 Chloride 26 Sulfate 4 Biocarbonate 112 and Ph 7.6
Thanks
Erik
Actually, that's not correct. It's the additions needed to reach the target profile that need to be balanced, and they are. It's his starting water profile that appears unbalanced but there are several reasons why this may be. Usually, it's due to the fact that not all ions are reported in the water analysis. For instance, if a source of Ca has an associated anion that is not of the type that's reported, the Ca would show on the report but not the anion. This would cause the ions to appear to be unbalanced. The additions, however, do need to be balanced. Given his initial water profile, the target profile above is, in fact, achievable.The water profile seen directly above does not balance as to it's cation and anion mEq/L's. Therefore it is not a good target profile for any beer because it is impossible to replicate it in the real world.
You should see my water profile if 100% carbon filter. Water here is very hard. Without a softner it turns utensils that are plastic white. Our drinking water is on hard water with the filter. If I just do RO Water from the store. Not sure what to use besides Calcium Chloride and since german wheats do not need sulfate(gypsum). Sulfate brings out harshness in bittering. That is why English Pale Ales use it.Actually, that's not correct. It's the additions needed to reach the target profile that need to be balanced, and they are. It's his starting water profile that appears unbalanced but there are several reasons why this may be. Usually, it's due to the fact that not all ions are reported in the water analysis. For instance, if a source of Ca has an associated anion that is not of the type that's reported, the Ca would show on the report but not the anion. This would cause the ions to appear to be unbalanced. The additions, however, do need to be balanced. Given his initial water profile, the target profile above is, in fact, achievable.
I'm actually surprised at the amount of bicarbonate he has being that he's using mostly RO water. If only distilled water were used, I would suggest the following water profile:
Calcium........................62.5
Magnesium................10.0
Sodium...........................0.0
Sulfate..........................80.4
Chloride.......................80.5
Bicarbonate..................0.0
You certainly don't want the sharp bitterness that a Pale Ale would have but their sulfate levels are generally around 225-275ppm, way more than the 80ppm I suggested. The generally accepted sulfate levels for a Dunkleweizen are around 50-150ppm.You should see my water profile if 100% carbon filter. Water here is very hard. Without a softner it turns utensils that are plastic white. Our drinking water is on hard water with the filter. If I just do RO Water from the store. Not sure what to use besides Calcium Chloride and since german wheats do not need sulfate(gypsum). Sulfate brings out harshness in bittering. That is why English Pale Ales use it.
Just reread the question and realized that it was a little bit more involved. I don't know any calculator that will give you concentrations of individual salt solutions directly out of a profile without fiddling around with the amounts of each salt. Problem is there's more than one way to get there depending on what salt you have on hand and your starting border profile.The Brewers Friend calculator works fine . If you put in the total volume as 1 l, the output will be grams per liter
Ahh, that makes sense.Just reread the question and realized that it was a little bit more involved. I don't know any calculator that will give you concentrations of individual salt solutions directly out of a profile without fiddling around with the amounts of each salt. Problem is there's more than one way to get there depending on what salt you have on hand and your starting border profile.
Not CaCl?Exactly. Brewers friend's calculator is so easy to use. Just type in you're amount of water and stay playing with the different type of salts.
For ease of use, I recommend staying with gypsum and NaCl2 dihydrate.
I always mix them up... Thanks.Not CaCl?
CaCl2 comes from the factory as the anhydride. By the time you open up the bottle and use it just once, it will already be down to about 94%-96% CaCl2, so perhaps you can sort of ballpark figure that with each use it looses about 5% due to water adsorption. But you can't ever buy it as the dihydride (to my knowledge). When it is down to about 75.5% it is at the dihydride state. But it doesn't stop adsorbing water at that juncture. It continues until it turns into a mush water/salt goo.Exactly. Brewers friend's calculator is so easy to use. Just type in you're amount of water and stay playing with the different type of salts.
For ease of use, I recommend staying with gypsum and NaCl2 dihydrate.
Yes that's true. However, my plastic bag seals very well and since years it's not changing much, judged simply by the looks of it. I know it continues to attract water but I close it quickly and push all the air out before so it seems to stay within limits that are ok. I just overdose it by about a quarter or a third compared to the anhydrate and so far I seem to be doing pretty fine with that approach.CaCl2 comes from the factory as the anhydride. By the time you open up the bottle and use it just once, it will already be down to about 94%-96% CaCl2, so perhaps you can sort of ballpark figure that with each use it looses about 5% due to water adsorption. But you can't ever buy it as the dihydride (to my knowledge). When it is down to about 75.5% it is at the dihydride state. But it doesn't stop adsorbing water at that juncture. It continues until it turns into a mush water/salt goo.
The *label* on my 1kg tub of CaCl2 says "CaCl2.2H2O". Of course, that doesn't meant it is, for reasons you explained. I guess I could bake it or get a hydrometer that's actually accurate and calculate what it really is (= was), but as long as it's a reasonably loose solid powder, I don't think it's off enough for me to care. (I rarely use Cl salts anymore anyway, after I started using HCl for pale beers).CaCl2 comes from the factory as the anhydride. By the time you open up the bottle and use it just once, it will already be down to about 94%-96% CaCl2, so perhaps you can sort of ballpark figure that with each use it looses about 5% due to water adsorption. But you can't ever buy it as the dihydride (to my knowledge). When it is down to about 75.5% it is at the dihydride state. But it doesn't stop adsorbing water at that juncture. It continues until it turns into a mush water/salt goo.
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